Clubbing seals is pretty brutal, but thinking about other "humane" ways to kill them is too funny me. Sorry. I can't stop laughing at the thought of a baby seal sitting in a tiny electric chair with a single tear running down it's cheek.

More on topic, population control of seals (or deer, or any other animal) might be a good idea but people freak out at just the thought of birth control. It would be absolutely horrifying to apply the same standards to humans as some would hold to seals.

If you see populations control as good, which it might be it might be arguable that since the adult seals are the problem they should have the control done to them instead of clubbing them when they are babies. It lets them live out their lives and provides a more fair standard for dispensing with them. Only the seals that pose a problem are dealt with.

You might argue against that saying that there's no difference when you kill them if you're willing to do that and you'd get their pelts too. But the problem with that is it's treats the animals as just a resource to be harvested, which I think a lot of people could have big problems with, saying that mindset allows people to "harvest" unsustainably, leading to environmental catastrophe, etc, etc. As well it denies the animal's dignity and a good portion of their lives.

At that point the only justification for clubbing baby seals is for their fur and to support local economies that are supported by the fur trade, but you'd just have to weigh out your desire to have something "fashionable" versus the life of the seal, which I dunno, but in my opinion, fur is highly replaceable with alternatives, so I'd not want any seal fur, or fur of any kind.

Umm, when your weighing the impact on local economies, you'd also have to account for alternative jobs in the region. Why do the fishermen HAVE to fish? Is it the only resource/ job available in the region? or is there something else that's viable that they could do? I don't know much about the fishing communities affected by seal over-population, so I won't take a stance on that issue.

Whatever... I just like talking sometimes when things like this come up.

Geez, why do I care so much about someone I've never met? Rachael, maybe you're my Sally.

1. Fishermen in Newfoundland have been in the fishing trade for hundreds of years. The island was settled as a fishing colony. In many families, fishing goes back 4 or 5 generations. In many communities, fishing is literally the only industry. You're either a fisherman, or you work in a fishplant, or you run the local grocery store. The decline of the fishery is due to several things (foreign overfishing being the largest) but currently, the seal population is perhaps the biggest threat to the industry, and the species. That's right, the atlantic codfish, which was in everything from fish sticks to fish 'n' chips, is now on the endangered species list... the seal is not. You'd think greenpeace would pay some attention to that.

2. Baby seals are much cuter than adult seals. However cuteness doesn't automatically mean they are harmless. A baby harp seal eats something like 5 times it's weight in fish per day, and they only eat the guts... leaving the fillet intact. And if it's worse to kill an animal cause it's cute for industry, well look at the meat industry. Look at veal... young cows kept in tiny cages so they don't grow strong so the muscles stay tender.

3. Seals are not hunted merely for fur. That is one reason, yes. However, there are also exported for food, oil, medicine and more. In fact, the outcry in the 80s by animal rights activists have greatly reduced the demand for fur, especially from seals. That is not the only reason they are killed though, it is not even the main reason.

4. The videos shown by greenpeace and peta and other organizations of dirty old men beating seals senseless are 95% of the time staged videos. The seal hunt takes place when about 100 men go onto the ice with about 5000 seals walking around. In these videos used in anti-sealhunt propaganda, it's 3 or 4 guys surrounding one tiny (always baby) seal. It is inaccurate, and they have been charged and convicted for misleading the public and lying about the source of the footage.

5. Sealers do not brutally bash in the skulls of seals. They give them a small bop on the head and it's over... quick, instant, as uncruel as killing an animal can be. (compare it to other areas of the food industry... slaughterhouses and the like)

6. I am all for animal rights. I support many of greenpeace's causes. But this is a very complicated issue, and it is misunderstood by most everyone who sees a fake video on TV and decides that they can accurately evaluate a different culture, a different ecosystem, and a different setting that they know nothing about.

7. This is a sensitive issue, and there is no way around it. Having an opinion on the matter is fine, but make sure it is an informed one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nikabrik:
Having an opinion on the matter is fine, but make sure it is an informed one.

---

I'm informed enough to know that killing animals for fur is simply not acceptable. (I could care less what method you use.) Yes, this is my opinion and I stand by it.

Also, killing animals claiming that it is balancing the ecosystem is not a good excuse, in my humble opinion. "Boy, it's a good thing man is around to make sure that the seals don't eat all the fish."

-TR

quote:

---

Originally posted by TR:

"Boy, it's a good thing man is around to make sure that the seals don't eat all the fish."

---

Heh, it's true. I hate to say it, and you can blame whatever you want on the animals, but lets face it, humans have done several million times the damage to the ecosystem any breed of animal will do.

Yes, I feel bad for the families of those whose industries are being closed because of seals, but if people hadn't worked so hard at mass fishing (and mass breeding), there would be enough for the seals and humans.

If there was one thing Agent Smith got right, we are closely related to a common virus. (Bit of morbid self-realisation when I saw that movie!)

---winz---
Carpe Jugulum
'Go for the throat.'
Rendali di scarico.

{grammar edit}

[This message was edited by winz on June 08, 2003 at 04:27 AM.]

[This message was edited by winz on June 08, 2003 at 04:28 AM.]

Keep in mind, I'm not particularly informed, just opinionated!



---winz---
Carpe Jugulum
'Go for the throat.'
Rendali di scarico.

Again, as I said, I also believe that killing simply for fur is not right.

There are other factors in the decision to hunt seals, however, and I am simply saying that they need to be considered. It is not as simple as "fur is bad, baby seals are cute, seal hunters are barbaric, etc."

I'm fully aware that this is a very un-PC position to hold. But as I am directly affected by it, and know about the entire scenario, I feel quite comfortable with it.

I don't try to talk much about beef slaughtering inhumanity in Texas cause I know nothing about the situation aside from the fact that cows are killed. I think that people should consider things like that before presenting their opinions on these issues as absolutely morally and logically correct.

This is not going to turn into a flame war, and I'm sorry it had to. Everyone has their opinions, if you care that much, take it up in email.

Topic closed.

moose