It comes from a Proverb: Train a child in the way they should go and when they are old, they will not depart from it. Other translations say "raise up a child..." It was not meant to suggest someone was treating her like a pet animal. It's child rearing the old fashioned way, with parents looking out for the best interests of their kids. Not like what we got going in American culture today.

when i said that religion takes responsibility out of people of that religions' hands, i was referring mainly to the concept of faith. webster's dictionary defines religious faith as "complete acceptance of truth which cannot be demonstrated or proved by the process of logical thought." (i like quotes.) what this says to me is that religion sets aside rules that should be followed in life, thus eliminating the task, or responsibility, of deciding upon one's own rules that should be followed in life.

i'm going to be perfectly honest here. i'm an angsty teen with little faith in anything. some have called me a nihilist, though i would not go that far. i just find it very hard to believe that there is a supreme being out there with the good of humankind, and everything else, on its mind when there is so much terrible [censor] that occurs in this world every day. i suppose this is a pretty grim view, but hey, i'm an artist. or maybe i was trained this way...

but i do agree that this topic has little to do with the wonderful and talented RACHAEL LEIGH COOK anymore, so i accept your private e-mail offer.

and again, i don't mean to offend anyone, just stating my opinion.

[Edited by adam on June 21, 2001]

Well, it could be she's not even religious at all...
I don't know how it's like in the USA, but here it's pretty normal if you don't believe in anything... (accept you parents )
Like me, i'm not religious at all. I have a more science kind of view at the world... (But i'm very open to people who DO believe in a god or have their own beliefs, in fact, i find it rather interesting)

Re: Training - this is actually not far from the truth. When kids are young, they are essentially like very intelligent animals. You train them not to pee on the floor and you train them to behave, and in most cases, you train them to believe that certain things are right or wrong and certain things are true or false.

This is one of the major faults I find with religion. Young children aren't given the opportunity to decide for themselves if God exists. They are force fed it from birth until it becomes reality for them and they can't comprehend that anything else could be right. This is what "faith" has become - or perhaps this is what faith has always been - for the general poplace, at least.

I consider myself lucky, I wasn't force fed religion when I was a kid. My parents decided to let me make up my own mind. Now, I happen to have decided the idea of a big benevolent man in the sky is ludicrous, but I could have decided another way. And when I have kids, I'm going to let them make up their own mind about religion with as little bias from myself as I can manage.

Re: Religion & Character - As someone else said, these two are completely unrelated. Way too many mass murderers and terrorists claim to worship god for this to mean jack. I'm an atheist and I think I'm a damn good person. If I did believe in heaven, I'm sure I'd not only have a ticket in, I might even get a backstage pass.

I don't automatically assume all Catholics are close minded fanatics, so please don't assume all atheists/pagans/whatever are corrupted, immoral people.

I find it really amusing (enraging?) when religious zealots (I'm not talking about people here, just other people I've met elsewhere) talk about being so loving and good, when they are completely intolerant of and mean to anyone who doesn't believe as they do.

-Nate

can an atheist use the term "damn"?

I use it all the damn time. If you mean can I use it in the biblical sense, then no. If you don't believe in God, Satan, or Hell, it's a little hard to say you'll be damned for something.

-Nate

Uhh.. I happen to belong to a religion many people consider "pushy", so Im just gonna not comment on this anymore. I just wanted to know what her beliefs were. Thats all. sigh...

Khyron - Just because your religion is pushy, that doesn't necessarily mean you are. I don't judge people based on their religion or how other members of their religion act. I judge a person based on his own actions. So as long as you personally are not being pushy (and you don't seem to be), there's no problem.

-Nate

he Adventist faith is, for me, both experiencial and experimental. As the psalmist put it, Taste and see that the Lord is good.

I can say this: if the people who claimed to be followers of God would have had their act together, a lot of the (expletive) that has happened would have been avoided. And it is decided that the day is coming when God will not tolerate it any more. It will end. Only the people that God can trust will see all of His promises fulfilled.

Of course, that is why it's called "faith." You got to put trust in someone to fulfill their obligations. Thing is, God made His promises conditional. Those who choose to believe have to go first. Not an easy thing to do.

I know why I choose to believe, because I know what I have experienced. From what I've researched in science and from the bible, I can understand why a person chooses not to believe. I've come close to walking away many times over the last ten years. But it has always been worth the time and trouble to hang on to faith every time.

I'll be leaving town in a couple of days. I'm moving to KY and probably won't have access to the Internet until Monday or Tuesday.

Keep the faith.

We ride our bikes around the cemetery weaving. I look up to you on the cross am I to come upon you suddenly like this forever? Happy relieved you are here but I can see you, I can feel you, I can see you. You are like the ticket half I find inside the pocket of my old leaf raking coat. There all the time all the while forgotten. I so often seem to leave you in churches and other islands and on my beads but I can see you, I can feel you, I can see you. I take the ticket half and put it on the table saying this is GOD and he's here through my comings and goings but I walk past the ticket half just as I've walked past the cross on our wall. Our self importance grows so dazzling we don't see you but gentle JESUS aren't you always aren't you every hour here?

The Innocence Mission
Every Hour Here

The earlier messages say that one should not force his or her religion onto others. I am annoyed and sometimes offened by such people. I don't open the door when such people ring my door bell early in the morning. I hate it when an evangelist throws pamphlets in my face as I walk out of a supermarket. I am offened when they say I am going to Hell. I don't believe in Hell, but that is still insulting. However, I don't think that anyone should negatively criticize the religiously zealous - at least not too much. People who have a religion whole-heartedly believe that their own religion is the absolute truth. Atheists do the same - we whole-heartedly believe there are no deities and people who believe otherwise are wrong. Furthermore, Christians believe that it is their duty to "save the souls of non-believers by spreading the teachings of God." I use Christianity because it is definitely the religion of the American consciousness. Christians carry out their duty for two reasons: they have enough compassion to "save" others and they fear that if they don't, they would go to Hell - an eternity of torture and punishment. I ask those who shun people who force their religion upon others to put themselves in the shoes of the religiously zealous. Wouldn't you want to help other people by preaching something you believe to be true as well as avoid something like Hell?

As for keeping topics related to Rachael, I understand. But I enjoy this discussion and am learning a lot from the many responses. Also, where else can we, the people of this message-board, go to voice our opinions with each other about these matter? I guess the best any of us can do is to keep these at a minimal.